Interview with Steven Grooby – Part 2

Welcome back to Through The Benz! In Part 2 of my interview with Steven Grooby we focus on the industry and some of more important issues facing not only the industry but the trans community. I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it!

It’s very apparent you care for the models you work with and for the trans community in general, and that Grooby does a lot to help those in the trans community. What do you feel are the biggest issues facing transgender people today? Do you feel the recent increase in legislation specifically targeting trans people is a sign of society pushing back against the gains made in recent years or just the byproduct of it being an election year?

I’m not really too qualified to answer this from anything other than a perspective of someone following the media. I think politicians, media and entertainment are jumping on the trans bandwagon without much thought to the bigger picture. At one end of the spectrum you have Caitlyn Jenner whom I believe has been awful for the trans community – and the other end of the spectrum Laverne Cox and Janet Mock who are wonderful. I think the trans community has to make small steps and firm footholds with their activism instead of yelling and screaming at everything they perceive as bias against them. We’re on an unstoppable path, I don’t believe it’s a byproduct of an election year as you asked, I believe trans person awareness and exposure is going to become larger and more accepting as every year passes. What we’re looking for and what is needed is equality and the ability to live one’s life as one wishes – but I don’t think we’re anywhere close to where people won’t continue to stare, or comment on people who appear out of the norm, whether it has malicious intent or not.

The Trans Adult Industry Foundation (TAIF) was created last year. Can you tell us more about the foundation and some of the goals you would like to accomplish?

It’s all about giving back to the community. We contribute 5% of what we pay our models and put it into the fund as well as other fundraising activities like the calendar sales, etc. The aim is to start contributing to life saving or life affirming organizations involved in the trans community. We’re hoping to start working with a hospital in Los Angeles to get them some regular money and we’ll move on from there. The goal is to encourage other companies to do the same and get some real money back to people who need it.

In March of 2015 Grooby Productions reached out to Trans Lifeline and offered to become a sponsor and provide much needed financial assistance, but you were rebuffed by their Board of Directors which led to an often contentious and public exchange of comments. Has this affected how and who you reach out to in the trans community as far as your charitable efforts? Was this the impetus behind establishing TAIF?

No, what happened doesn’t affect who we reach out to. Just like the TEA’s they’re open to everyone regardless of how I personally feel about their business, TAIF or our charitable arm will reach out to any worthy causes we feel fit our criteria, it would be their loss to refuse donations for such personal on subjective reasons. We did TAIF so any organizations which may have an issue associating themselves with adult, which I can understand, would feel more comfortable.

Yes, Kristel, Buck and I brainstormed immediately after that situation and came up with TAIF.

Can the trans porn industry be a positive influence within the trans community since there is still such a stigma attached to the industry and being a sex worker?

I’m not qualified to answer that. I’m sure some see it as positive and others whether through their own experience, religion or misplaced morals, would feel otherwise.

The term “shemale” has been a controversial subject in recent years. Many view the term as derogatory and claim it reinforces objectification of trans women and contributes to discrimination and even violence. You are on record as saying you agree with not using the word ‘shemale” to identify transgender individuals on your sites and would like to see it phased out, and that it is and should always be a word used in the context of porn only. However, from the business standpoint, the term “shemale” is the most valuable word in terms of search engine results worldwide. You stated “It’s the most recognizable word for non-English speakers to find this content and with over 50% of our sales coming from non-English speaking countries, it would be problematic to not use it. There are 30 times more people searching on Google for the word “shemale” than “tgirl”, which makes it unreasonable to ask companies to stop marketing to over 95% of its potential clientele.” So, what do you feel is the best way to deal with this dilemma? Do you think the term “shemale” will eventually be able to be phased out, and if so, what steps would need to be taken in order for that to happen?

The short answer is ‘No’, I don’t think it will ever be able to be phased out and I stand by what I stated last year. I don’t see it as a dilemma and I believe with the continued good education, and informing we’ve always done, that people will understand the difference between porn and reality. We’ve been more responsible for helping companies on the periphery industry change the terminology across dozens of outlets mainly in dating and cam sites, from ‘tranny’, ‘TV/TS’ and ‘shemale’ to something more acceptable as we’re the ‘go-to’ company for trans in the adult industry but when you get to companies wanting to sell porn, worldwide then ‘shemale’ is still going to be the strongest reaching word. You’ll get claims from a few talking heads that they’ve managed to produce and sell porn without using that terminology, but the biggest mouths produce very little – and still capitalize from words like ‘shemale’ through their affiliates or distribution channels, so they’re basically spouting their usual garbage.

If you really want me to answer how it could be changed out – then either a) come up with an alternative word and get it coined (like we’ve been doing with ‘tgirl’ for nearly 20 years) that has the same reach. b) the profit margins would have to be a lot bigger, to enable companies to survive while new words got popularity.

Many girls who are interested in modeling are under the misconception that in order to have a chance to be selected as a model for Grooby they have to look like a Barbie doll; be tall, slender and have big boobs, in spite of the fact that you have been instrumental in promoting positive body image and self-acceptance by featuring a wide spectrum of models in all shapes, sizes, and ages on your sites. Yet, not everyone who applies is selected. What criteria do you use in selecting your models?

I hope they’re not under that misconception with us! We’ve done everything we can to show the full spectrum of trans women in nudes and erotica. I know other companies have different criteria (and the one that seemed to be the most elitist is practically out of business) but we’d like to show as much as we can. Listen, the thing is, you can only select models who you feel are going to either encourage new members to join, and/or keep existing members happy. It’s costly to produce sets – people think that it ends with the model/photographer cost but that’s like going into a coffee shop and suggesting you pay 25c for a coffee, as that’s what the beans and water cost. We have video and photo editors, marketing, book-keepers, designers, lawyers, etc to pay so when we make the decision on whom to photograph, it has to be with the view of making that money back – and hopefully some profit! Member’s expectation levels have to be met, so putting a model up who doesn’t meet that is actually more costly as they could cancel. We’ve a whole hard drive of models who were shot and paid for, yet considered not good enough for the sites for various reasons. My goal is to get as many shoots to as many models as possible; the minimum we need to do is break even – but there are models who apply, who simply are never going to make your profit back and need a dose of reality, to think they could make a living or get paid for shoots. It’s the worst part of my job, having to reject models as there is no easy way to say it … you’re being rejected based on how you look, nobody wants to hear that. Most people actually are aware of how they look and just giving it a shot but some get offended and snap back, which doesn’t really do any good.

What criteria do we use in selecting your models? The ability to make back the money we outlay on them. I look for models that present a great feminine appearance, someone who is unique in some way often goes to the top of the pile, I look for models who have great faces, I look for models that although I may not necessarily have an attraction for, I know our members will. I’m not always right but I have a pretty fucking good track record! I look for models who seem to want to do it (if anyone says they need to do it for the money, they generally get rejected or referred to a blog post).

How do you respond to your critics who claim you have an unfair advantage in that you have too much control and influence in the industry and that you sometimes wield your power with little regard to how it affects others?

I wasn’t aware that we had those critics, it’s the first I’ve heard? I don’t think we have any advantage, we’ve never tied models to contracts, we’ve never suggested they don’t work with other companies, there are companies out there that can afford to pay more for specific models, unlike some performer-producers we have to pay all our models (no trade shoots), there are models who debuted on others sites – and there are sites producing content. We’re not the only producer in town. I’m always amused when I see models claiming to have been black-balled out of the industry because they can’t get shoots; there is no monthly meeting of site producers, there are no hidden handshakes, etc. If you’re not getting shoots it’s either because your shoots haven’t been successful or you’re a pain in the arse to work with.

I do very little without thinking of how it affects others. It’s both my largest fault as a businessman – but possibly my best asset also. I try and be fair, I try to explain our position, or reasoning to people – but it sometimes backfires, I’m a pretty big target.

As a follow-up to the previous question, you are known for being brutally honest and speaking your mind, which has led to some rather public feuds with certain people. In hindsight, do you ever wish you had handled things more diplomatically and avoided the public fallout, or do you view this as a necessary part of the business? Or is that just you being you and the way you handle things?

I stand behind everything I’ve stated, or I’ll apologize and state I was incorrect. No other company owner of our company’s size, gives as much day-to-day access to the company, the staff and the owner. Often people who want to feud, are doing nothing more than giving me a soapbox to stand on and make my points. As you’ve noted, I’m extremely proud of what we’ve accomplished so if someone attacks the company, the product or the people, then I’ll stand up for it and protect it. I won’t have models bullied or called out on their looks, and will defend them also. I see it as a necessary part of our business we’re upfront and we’re honest. I’ve made myself a pretty big target – and I’m a big boy and I can absorb pretty much anything thrown at me by now and would rather they target me than a model or another company member. I find a lot of it amusing but there have been some pretty nasty threats over the years. I believe jealousy plays a big part of it … and who can blame them? It’s good to me! (was that arrogant enough?)

There has always been, and in many ways continues to be a negative perception of the adult entertainment industry and those who work in it by mainstream society. What can we as an industry do to break down those stereotypes and get people to view us in a more positive light?

That’s a huge question. The adult industry can do more to self-police itself, to ensure that abusive producers don’t get work, to ensure that young people aren’t exposed to porn unnecessarily, to ensure safety concerns are taken seriously, not just STD’s but physical and psychological effects. I’d support a measure that stopped websites from showing any penetration or sexual stimulation from free parts of a website. This would both kills tube sites and stolen content site and ensure that when an 8 year old googles ‘Angels’ she doesn’t get to a porn site to see explicit sex.

We can also hold ourselves with respect, class and aplomb. Go against the stereotype.

How would you define someone as having had a successful porn career? Is it based on popularity, longevity, and financial success? Or does success have a broader definition to you, such as someone using porn as a stepping stone to other things that lead to stability and happiness?

How does one measure success? Is it financial or is it in being able to express oneself? I know trans models who only wanted to do a handful of solo shoots to prove to themselves they were good enough – and the confidence they got from that, would mean that they were successful. Other models like Gia Darling had a good career, a great brand and now lives a different life … successfully. Porn is not a long term career plan, the ones who have been able to do it longer have business plans and use it with escorting, cam work and websites. I think too many girls get caught up in the popularity; they get 1000 likes on twitter and think that will convert to sales; it doesn’t.

Can you tell us about your blog Fallen Angels and Lost Devils.

The only information one could find on models or producers from our part of the industry was on forums like Hungangels.com and often these were rumors more than facts. We started that blog as both an online memorial to those that had died, as an information area and long term, to provide a resource about trans models deaths. It’s the only website we own that I prefer gets updated as seldom as possible.

What is the part of your job you enjoy the most and the part you enjoy the least?

Monday morning getting to see samples of all the content that came from the photographers over the last week – and then being the one to showcase/premier it to the world! I still get a buzz from showing a new model or a killer set.

Apart from rejecting models which I loath, anything to do with working out finances, I’ll leave that to Shannon.

When it’s all said and done and people look back on your career and what you’ve accomplished, what do you hope your legacy will be?

My gravestone would be ‘He came, he left.’

If Grooby survives beyond me, that would be a legacy! I think a lot of our content will be around as long as there is a digital medium. I think Grooby will always be seen as the company that propelled this genre forward in its early days. Who knows? I think the best is yet to come.

I would absolutely agree that the best is yet to come! The first 20 years have been amazing and I can’t wait to see what the next 20 years have in store for us! Thank you once again for taking the time to do this interview.